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ldyroper 12-18-2003 10:46 AM

flour for bread machine
Do I have to use bread machine flour? or bread flour. Isnt all flour the same?? Cant I use regular flour I get from the store? Yikes, this bread machine is to costly to have to buy special stuff.

barbszy 12-18-2003 01:12 PM

Kitty, bread flour contains more gluten than regular flour. You can add gluten to regular flour....I have NO idea where to get gluten. I have not seen it in any supermarket around here.
But just for making dough and baking in the oven it's not as urgent to use the bread flour.

ldyroper 12-28-2003 05:21 AM

found wheat gluten!!!
I did find wheat gluten which is to be added 1 tsp per cup flour for the bread machine. Im so happy. I made a loaf with a box mix for the bread machine and I must have had my water to hot. The load is small. But good. Anyhow, My grocery store of all places carried the gluten. So I can use my own flour. Today is snowy and cold, so Im going to try the bread thing again.

barbszy 12-28-2003 05:29 AM

ldyroper, just out of curiosity--since I've never been able to find gluten--how is it packaged, what section did you find it in (baking/health food/refrigerated), how much do you get in the pack and what was the cost?
It might end up being better for me to get the gluten, if I ever FIND it, than storing 25-lb sacks of bread flour (it takes up 4 large containers :eek: ).

ldyroper 01-05-2004 10:14 AM

the wheat gluten
Well, it was right by the bread flour and bread machine mixed in my regular grocery store. It is in a tan box about the size of a cornstarch box and cost $ 1.79. Ive used it 4 times (4 tsp each time) and theres alot left still. Maybe may make 20 loaves. I have however, not been able to produce a full size loaf as of yet even using the wheat gluten. Im troubled. Ive added a little more yeast, and am about to just almost double my recipe to at least geta loaf up to the top ! I am going to buy some bread flour to see if that may make a difference.
I just keep trying.

barbszy 01-05-2004 10:25 AM

Thanks for the gluten info! I'll keep looking for it!

As far as the bread not rising high enough, be sure you are measuring all your stuff REALLY accurately, and that you have EXACTLY the right amount of salt. Also, test your yeast to make sure it is fresh. Put a little yeast and a little sugar in some WARM water and see if it bubbles.
Are you making white bread or whole wheat? Wheat bread will be shorter and denser, regardless of other stuff. Hope this helps.
Maybe you should try a different recipe?

ldyroper 01-05-2004 10:47 AM

I will test the yeast
the yeast was brand new, just boughten, expire date of 2005 I think. I do make sure I measure acuratley, and have tried 2 differant recipes for white bread. I wont even attempt anything else until I get the white bread down. Im anxious to try bread flour, just to see. The bread with flour and gluten tastes fine, its just it doesnt rise enough. If you get the gluten, try it and tell me how yours does.
I was surprised to find the wheat gluten in my grocery store and was elated when I did find it.

LJsmom 01-05-2004 12:20 PM

bread rising
I've only had trouble with rising bread when my liquids are too hot-meaning anything much over room temp.
Oh, and the one bread mix I can never get right is the Hawaiin (sp?) bread. It always turns out tiny.

Does the gluten make it taste any different?

I just loooove home baked bread, especially during the winter. Is it cheating to call it home baked if we use the bread maker???:heart:

barbszy 01-05-2004 12:34 PM

Home Baked
If you made it at home, it's HOME BAKED. It doesn't matter how many appliances you needed to get it that way~ ;)

ldyroper 01-05-2004 01:23 PM

The reason I add the gluten, is because regular flour doesnt have it and when using a bread maker, the flour needs gluten. But if you use a bread machine flour, its already got it added. I used a mix before, and didnt notice any differance in flavor.
So you make the water room temp? Thats almost cool. I thought it was supposed to be warm, just warm to your touch. Maybe thats whats wrong. Then once I had it hot, cause I couldnt measure the temp, but it still turned out the same as warm water.
Ill try coolish next. After I check and make sure my yeast it good.

barbszy 01-05-2004 01:53 PM

Supposedly yeast likes a water temp around 100 degrees. If you have a candy thermometer you can test the water. But I figure if it feels right to the touch, then it's close to 100, since I am around 98.6....
Water too cold OR too hot can kill yeast.

bar_bar 01-10-2004 11:08 AM


Is it cheating to call it home baked if we use the bread maker???
No it not cheating, once when we were on a wagon train ride and someone was using the rubber tires another man asked him, don't you feel bad about using the rubber tires.
the man that was using the rubber tires looked back at him and said sir, if my granddaddy could use rubber tires he would have, problem is they didn't have rubber tires back then, now they do, so it alright,
are u going to give up your car just because people back in those days didn't have cars but wagon.
well the answer was no, so the man looked back and say well Im not giving up my rubber tires either.

point is if our grandmothers could have a bread maker some of them would use that bread maker, so go ahead and use it and don't think about it as cheating but as a pure pleasure of having something our grandmothers would love to have as well.

For my bread flour I store it in a super size zipped lock bag, and store it in the pantry and only take out what I need. and keep it fresh but without everything being in several containers.

ldyroper 01-18-2004 06:06 PM

Its my bread maker
No wonder I dont get the big loaves. The biggest size I get is the 1.5 lb load. My MIL gets 2lb loaves. I wish Id have known that when I went to buy a breadmaker. Oh well. Ill just have to make more then. They turn out good. Ive also boughten the bread machine flour, and actually, I like the recipe using reg. flour with the added wheat gluten. tthe bread machine flour didnt make it any bigger. Thats good, Cause I have got flour for days.
Now I dont feel so bad about the size of my loaves.

Jeannie 01-25-2004 10:44 AM

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Hi Y'all...

How about a little info on flours..
Not all flours are created equal.
There are hard wheat and soft wheat flours.
Hard wheat flours, those that contain a high protein level, will produce higher and better loaves of breads.

Soft wheat flours are for cakes, pastries and yes, Biscuits!
That is why southern biscuits are so tender, they use

White Lily flour available in the south....and it's 8 percent protein.

Gold Medal is inconsistent.. it varies from 9.8 to 11 percent protein
Pillsbury runs 10.5
However, Pillsbury has been purchased by the the gold medal people so the consistency now is questionable in my opinion

North Dakota Mills Dakota Maid for bread runs 13.2
King Arthur runs 12.7

The important thing here is consistency. That's why these mills prices for flour is a little higher, the quality is higher.
North Dakota mills Dakota maid is $1.00 for 5 lbs....I buy it directly from the mill.
Whereas, stores will charge from $1.87 to 2.87 for King Arthur flours.

Gold medal and those store brands buy buy the cheapest price they can get...thus the consistency varies.

Even among commercial flours you buy in the grocery store, the QUALITY varies. Gold medal, and store brands are commercial flours that as far as I am concerned aren't worth even using.

I use King Arthur or Dakota Maid flour ( which is available mail order...and I pay 13.75 for 20 lbs, 10 bread flour, 10lbs unbleached all purpose, and the 13.75 includes shipping.

Here's the addy for North Dakota Mills...

if you order, it's better to call their toll free number than to order on the net.

Bread flours contain 12-14 percent protein.
Use Unbleached flour whenever possible. It's better than bleached.... It will give you a higher rise as well.

As a side note, Canadian flours are better than store brand flours in the US..... they are of much better quality.

Vital wheat gluten extends the life of the bread as well give your bread good structure and rise and actually makes breads taste better. You only need 1 Tablespoon per loaf of bread.

You must be careful with temps of the yeast. I use SAF fast rise yeast and it has given me consistently good bread, and is a little more forgiving
Measuring accurately is very important, and if using a bread machine, to add the yeast last.

So the essentials of bread baking, is flour, fresh yeast and the right temperature water, and accurate measuring. Kneading is imperative. You can use your bread machine to do the kneading, ( let it knead it twice)....and then shape the loaf, put in a prepared pan and let rise again.....then bake... easy! If you follow this formula your bread will be like this...

Jeannie 01-25-2004 10:49 AM

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and this is our egg bread....very easy to make.....

ldyroper 02-07-2004 09:41 AM

Gosh, I wish
My bread looked like that!! That looks great. Ill keep trying!

Jeannie 02-07-2004 10:36 AM

ldyroper.. here's the recipe.. it's not difficult if you follow exactly what it says... don't bake it in the bread machine, but let it do the kneading for you.....

In a bowl or container combine:
3 cups of King Arthur Unbleached all purpose flour or Dakota Maid Unbleached all -purpose flour
mixed with the following...
1/2 cup Carnation low fat powdered milk
1T sugar
1 1/4 t salt
1 T vital wheat gluten
2 teaspoons instant yeast (I use SAF Perfect Rise)
set aside

4 T corn oil

In a 2 cup measure mix 1 whole egg with enough milk to measure 2/3 of a cup, then add 1/2 cup hot water and the oil

For Bread Machine:
In the dough bucket of your bread machine, put in all the liquid, add all the dry ingredients, and set your bread machine to "Dough" setting.......when it's finished kneading, reset your machine to have it go through the dough kneading cycle again, remove the bucket and place in the microwave (without turning it on) to rise or a draft free place...for about 60 min- 90 min.

Remove from the dough bucket, sprinkle a little flour on your board, and shape into a loaf to fit an 8 1/2 x 4 1/2 inch greased bread pan. I then put it in my microwave to rise for 60- 90 min.
( I find the microwave a good place, I don't have to cover the dough...)

Bake in a preheated 350 degree oven for 22-25 min, OR to internal temperature of 190 degrees. Remove from pan, place on a rack, sprinkle with a pinch or two of flour and let cool at least an hour before slicing.

If using a mixer, put the liquid ingredients, followed by the dry ingredients, and mix with a dough hook until smooth and satiny about 20 min, depending on your machine.

Transfer dough to a lightly greased bowl and let rise as above, and proceed as above.

Reserve 1/2 cup of the flour to use on your board....
put all the dry ingredients on your board, make a well in the center and add the wet ingredients. Mix and knead until smooth and satiny, this can take about 20 minutes.. then transfer to a greased bowl...and continue as above...

I have not made this bread bake in bread machine as of yet.

It goes quickly and the bread is wonderful..

You can get King Arthur Flour at:

Or Dakota Maid flour at:

I love Dakota Maid flour.. I have it has a higher protein content than King Arthur... and they put the mill date right on the bag.. I got a shipment today, the flour was milled 2 weeks ago. It's very fresh!....

barbszy 02-07-2004 11:17 AM

ldyroper, I have to second Jeannie's advice. She gives GREAT directions :) and if you follow them I'm sure you'll get excellent results.

I have made this bread recipe quite a few times as we really like it. It always rises nicely, high and golden brown. I do not use the gluten (since I can't FIND any!! :ugh: ) but I buy bread flour by the sack at Sam's Club and I haven't had any trouble with the recipe just using bread flour.

Jeannie 02-07-2004 11:21 AM

Barbszy.. are you ready to make the braided bread? It's soooooo easy.....*grins*

barbszy 02-07-2004 11:41 AM

Hey, I'll give it a shot ;) You're talking about the Egg Bread (Challah) recipe, right?

Tonight I've got honey wheat bread going. The bread machine is mixing my dough right now. I put 1/4 cup ground flaxseed in there to make it more nutritious. Let's see if it changes the taste any. I am figuring that it should blend in nicely with this bread (half whole wheat flour, half bread flour), coffee, cocoa, honey....

Jeannie 02-07-2004 02:17 PM

barbszy... exactly... very easy to make.. this is a big loaf. You can cut in half after it's baked and cooled and freezes well..but we don't ever have any to freeze! *s*

You will need an instant read thermometer, the bread has to bake to 190 degrees. I am giving you instructions using a bread machine to knead dough, a mixer and by hand.

You can use a bread machine to knead this bread IF you can reprogram it after the first mixing and kneading to do it again.

You can make this in a Stand mixer, and you can mix by hand.

I use King Arthur flour. I have NEVER had a failure with any of the King Arthur flours.....

Early in the day......make the starter

(Place in your dough bucket or large bowl)
1 cup unbleached all purpose flour
8 ounces water
2 teaspoons SAF Perfect Rise yeast

Mix and cover....let rise for 45 minutes. ( I place mine in the microwave because no one will bother it, and there are no drafts.)

Bread Dough:
3 1/2 cups ( 15 ounces) unbleached all purpose flour
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
1/3 cup sugar
1/4 cup oil
2 eggs plus one egg yolk, beaten together

Add all of this to the bowl or dough bucket with the yeast starter.

If using a bread machine, set machine on dough... after it finishes mixing and kneading, reset to mix and knead again.

If using a stand mixer with dough hook/s, let knead for 30 min.
( if using a kitchen aid, that's on #2)

If kneading by hand, knead until the dough is shiny and smooth like silk. That may take 20+ minutes, depending on your technique.

Once the dough is mixed and kneaded the appropriate time:

Remove the dough bucket, and place in microwave to let dough rise for 1 1/2 hrs.

If using a mixer, place dough in a lightly oiled large bowl, let rise 1 1/2 hours, covered and out of a draft. You can place in microwave ....

By dough in a lightly oiled large bowl, let rise 1 1/2 hours, covered and out of a draft. You can place in microwave ....

Once the dough has risen the appropriate time, remove from container, and knead by hand to expel the gasses. Cut into 3 equal pieces, roll by hand, using back and forth motion to make a rope about 18 inches can also do a 4 strand braid if you wish... either way it'll work

On a baking sheet lined with parchment paper, line the ropes up, pinch one end, and braid the bread dough. Tuck the ends under.

Now to make the egg wash:
Beat one egg with 1 Tablespoon of water..set aside

Cover shaped dough carefully, using jars or cans to keep the towel off the braid, with a towel. Let rise 1 hour to 1 hour 15 min. Or Place in a cold oven to rise, no cover needed.

Once the bread has risen, Brush with egg wash. Sprinkle with sesame seeds or poppy seeds if you wish.

Bake in a preheated 375 degree oven.....middle rack, 20 min. Then check.
Using your thermometer by inserting in the middle of the bread, if it measures 190 degrees it's done. If not, cover lightly with foil
so it won't burn, and bake in 5 min increments until the internal temperature is 190....

Depending on your oven, it may require an additional 10 -15 min, but you need to check it to avoid it burning.
Remove from baking sheet and let cool on a cookie least a half hour before slicing.

Makes great toast and great French toast, and fantastic as is.

This bread freezes well. Just let it thoroughly defrost in the plastic bag before removing.

I think I covered it all.....any questions ...just let me know.... *s*
This is a very easy bread to make. It just looks complicated...*g*

Sueanne 02-07-2004 05:07 PM

White Mountain Bread
Jeannie~~~ Your white mountain bread looks beautiful. When you put the dough in the pan do you put the seam at the bottom. Never saw a loaf rise so high over the top of the pan. Think the wheat gluten really does the trick. Let us know how you like the bread with flaxseed. Thanks for the photos.

Jeannie 02-07-2004 09:00 PM

Sueanne.. ummm.. bread with flaxseed? umm...

Yes, seam side down in the pan.... *s*

barbszy 02-08-2004 04:43 AM

That was ME with the flaxseed, Jeannie. I put it in my "Outback Steakhouse" clone bread last night. It came out great. The flavor went really well with the bread, a honey wheat. Everyone said it was really good.

Jeannie, I'll have to wait on the challah until I can do it by hand. No way will all that flour fit in my little bitty bread machine! I love doing bread by hand but it takes more time, plus it's actually a luxury for me to be able to do it that way.

Jeannie 02-08-2004 11:12 AM

Barbszy..ummm....if your machine will make a 2 lb loaf it can knead the dough.. *s* Ok then, let me know how you like it when you get to it... *s*

ldyroper 02-08-2004 01:55 PM

UMM Jeannie
Thanks for that recipe, I am going to try it when this new loaf I just make is gone. And it does sound easy.

barbszy 02-08-2004 04:10 PM

Jeannie, my machine only does 1 1/2 lb. I know it won't take more than 3 1/2 cups of flour.

Made the White Mountain bread with our dinner tonight. Delicious!

Jeannie 02-08-2004 04:23 PM

barbszy.. I'm so glad you enjoy it... *s* Maybe a new bread machine for Mother's Day.... the new Zo is soooo nice! I have picture of it on the refrigerator for a hint! LOL It can handle kneading for my purposes...the Zojirushi X20.... *s*

I checked around and the price is the same no matter where....
it's also known as the Supreme...

barbszy 02-08-2004 05:56 PM

Jeannie, yes, that would be cool....but I *really* can't justify a new "kneading" machine ;) I do have a nice Rival stand mixer I could knead the dough in. Again, as in doing this by hand, it leaves more of a mess than I have a good chance at cleaning up just now. Maybe in a few more months when Mr. Wacky Toddler calms down some.
I'm just happy that I can do bread at all, that I have a bread machine to do the work for me so I can enjoy the homemade bread. Otherwise I'd never get the chance to have it, with my family's schedule being what it is.
The bread machine I have now was FREE. I've had it 8 years. A friend replaced hers when it needed a repair, and said if I wanted to have it repaired I could keep it. My BIL offered to try to fix it, and found that it only needed a $1 fuse!

Sueanne 02-08-2004 08:51 PM


Originally posted by Jeannie
Sueanne.. ummm.. bread with flaxseed? umm...

Yes, seam side down in the pan.... *s*

Jeannie ~~~~ Mom has been reading the posts sitting next to me got sidetracted thought you were using it.

Barbszy~~~ Good idea using flaxseed have you posted your clone recipe yet?^^

Jeannie 02-08-2004 10:06 PM

barbszy.. kewl... I would of course use it for more than just kneading.... *s* we'll see what happens... *s*

barbszy 02-09-2004 03:35 AM

Sueanne, here is a link to the recipe for Outback Steakhouse Bread

When I made it with the flaxseed I left out a little of the wheat flour and put in about 1/4 cup flaxseed. I didn't want to go too overboard with a new flavor. The amount worked well & didn't take over the flavor of the bread. It gave the bread a little more texture. I've done the same with wheat germ in the past, in similar amounts. That worked too.

ldyroper 02-12-2004 02:07 PM

I tried the dough setting
And attempted to make hamburger buns. Ha! they turned out more like rolls. I dont think they rose enough after I took them out of the machine. The dough was so fluffy!! I will try again!
But first Im going to use the dough setting and then put it in the oven and try bread that way.

kahana 02-16-2004 03:12 PM


Originally posted by barbszy
I've never been able to find gluten

If you've still not been able to locate gluten, try a health food store if there is one near you.

sonya 09-30-2006 05:45 PM

Barbszy.. I have the Portugese Easter Bread rising now. I am looking for your "Outback" recipe, but the link is no longer working. Did something happen to the previous posts?

barbszy 10-01-2006 05:51 AM

We were putting them in another spot, but that project seems to have fizzled out. I'll have to check on that.

Here's the Outback recipe for the bread machine.

3/4 cup warm water
1 tbl butter
1/4 cup honey
1 1/2 tsp caramel color (optional)
1 cup bread flour
about 1 cup whole wheat flour
1/2 tbl EACH of cocoa powder and sugar
1 tsp instant coffee or espresso powder
1/2 tsp salt
1/2 tbl yeast

Use dough cycle. Bake in a loaf pan at 350 for about 30 to 35 minutes.

For a little extra texture, you can put in up to 1/2 cup of ground flaxseed. It doesn't change the flavor but makes the texture a little nuttier, and it's very good for you.

sonya 10-01-2006 08:07 AM

Thank you for reposting the Outback recipe. The Portugese Easter Bread had a really nice texture. I decided to make a second loaf.:bgrin:

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